Author Topic: frames and foundation (Read 3444 times)

Dunkel · « **on:** June 23, 2017, 11:29:45 am »

Ok looks like I may have to eat my own words again. To deal with some issues I threw myself into the bees and cows. Seemed like a good idea at the time I guess, didn't realize I was doing it. Any way the warm mild winter brought through the bees almost to well. I had always planned on doing some nucs but things always came up but I had made several boxes from scraps and tried different designs based on the lengths. Well the swarm season got hectic and with my fondness for a huge beautiful queen cell, I ended up with about sixty new nucs and singles when the smoke cleared.

I've been able to keep up until now with my wood frames and wax foundation but I'm seeing that I may have to do plastic foundation again. I hate being stubborn to a fault. But twice before my experience has been not the best, each time I swore it off. A lot of people around here has had some good luck with the acorn foundation with the heavy wax. I may give it a try to help take up the slack in my immediate needs until I can catch up. It would be nice to come in from the hayfield and know I didn't have another four hours of building frames. How are the other brands of plastic doing for others?

Perry · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2017, 11:56:56 am »

Permadent is what I first started using and it was OK. I tried a case of Pierco and I liked the heavier wax coating, but I have now switched completely to Ritecell. It has a heaver coating of wax and the cell definition and depth are better.
The bees will draw out anything during a strong flow, and I've had almost no issues getting them interested in the plastic foundation. I avoid plastic frames altogether.

yes2matt · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2017, 03:12:37 pm »

Or no foundation? That's fastest.

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Jen · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2017, 03:30:29 pm »

First thing I was going to say was "Hey Dunkel! Where the heck have ya been??" Then I read your story... 60 nucs! Jeez Louise!

What if you combined those 60 nucs into 30 hives? I'm doing some of that nuc combining now...

Lburou · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2017, 05:43:39 pm »

Quote from: Perry on June 23, 2017, 11:56:56 am

...The bees will draw out anything during a strong flow, and I've had almost no issues getting them interested in the plastic foundation. I avoid plastic frames altogether.

My experience as well Perry. I currently have ritecell and acorn foundations in wooden frames, bees work either without a problem.

Dunkel · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2017, 07:23:02 pm »

That's great to hear guys thanks, I give it shot since I now have people to blame if it doesn't work out :
Y2M Iv'e thought of doing some of that also, do you still wire?

Jen my father passed in January, He was more than a da he was my business partner in farming and my best friend. With Taking care of 45 momma cows and teaching I have only been able to pop on here to keep an eye on you. That cheeokee/irish combination has to be watched

Dunkel · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2017, 07:29:25 pm »

Oh and Jen I've thought about combining and I have several that's how I got in down to that number. I have about fifteen in double nucs and several in single deeps and several in double deeps. The singles are packed. My goal was to over winter about twenty in Perry configuration but the bees had other plans. I started them too early I guess. I can tell you that if anything stumbles it gets shook out and its hive gets used quickly

Jen · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2017, 08:56:08 pm »

Dunkel, I'm thinking with an apiary like that you better be getting some honey jars pronto!

This hippy injun is now down to 2 hives and several nucs each year. Have sold 5 nucs so far this year. That puts some jingle in my jeans for the irish beer in the fridge

Bakersdozen · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2017, 07:02:30 am »

Dunkel, I am so sorry for your loss. I too lost my mother in April. I miss her everyday.
I use plastic foundation. I think it's plasti-cell (?) If I have a chance, I melt my own wax and roll it on the foundation for an extra boost and incentive.

Dunkel · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2017, 10:18:06 am »

Thank you B12, I'm getting better but sometimes its hard especially doing things we have done together for over thirty years. Yes I may try adding wax if it looks like they are hesitating. I suspect that may be the reason the acorn heavy waxed foundation is having good success here. Looking last night I found that Mann Lake is offering some with added wax.

The cindy storm passed through here last night giving some flooding and stranding my wife in Dallas. But for the rest of the week clear cool weather. just in time for sourwood and some clover sumac flow. But in a couple of weeks that's about it and comb building dwindles and even feeding doesn't seem to work much after July, they just back fill. I hate having them strip the foundation of its wax, I suspect that was part of my problem the last time I tried plastic.

I've never tried foundationless on purpose but I think I may give it a shot in a few, Maybe slide one frame in the brood nest on five or ten. That would help with the costs also

Once I get the boxes and frames made I can see me really having fun with this next year, pretty nice to pull brood and bees for a nuc without messing with the production hives.

yes2matt · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2017, 11:47:15 am »

Quote from: Dunkel on June 23, 2017, 07:23:02 pm

That's great to hear guys thanks, I give it shot since I now have people to blame if it doesn't work out :
Y2M Iv'e thought of doing some of that also, do you still wire?

Jen my father passed in January, He was more than a da he was my business partner in farming and my best friend. With Taking care of 45 momma cows and teaching I have only been able to pop on here to keep an eye on you. That cheeokee/irish combination has to be watched

Not saying you should do anything like I do, but:

This is a deep frame with popsicle sticks stapled across the top, or if you crack out the wedge staple it back in oriented down for a drawing edge. Then I run 50lb-test monofilament back and forth thru the holes and attach to one bar with thumbtacks. 30lb-test is too light.

A nuc or swarm will draw worker comb generally, a more mature colony will draw what they want, and sometimes it looks pretty creative. Tho I haven't had any trouble with cross comb.

Dunkel · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2017, 12:55:21 pm »

They always amaze me what they can do. I'll have to check on my fishing line stock. Do you keep your hives level?

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2017, 02:21:24 pm »

Can someone send me a link to acorn foundation... is that what it's called? Not finding it on MLake

yes2matt · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2017, 03:52:27 pm »

Quote from: Dunkel on June 24, 2017, 12:55:21 pm

They always amaze me what they can do. I'll have to check on my fishing line stock. Do you keep your hives level?

Eyeball level, yeah. At least side to side, I try to cant them a little to the front for solid bottoms.

Pull your monofilament plenty tight.

Don't put foundationless frames in an extractor. (Ask me how I know?)

If the issue is time not money, my girls took to Mann Lake's plastic "rite cell" just fine, they had a sale on prefab frames 40 for $50 in April. Those extract no trouble

Perry · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2017, 04:58:56 pm »

http://www.acornbee.com/foundations-2/

Nugget Shooter · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2017, 06:25:02 pm »

Just for the record we are using both plastic frames and wood frames with ritecell, no issues with either being drawn and used by our bees.

riverbee · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2017, 01:22:06 am »

dunkel, a little late to the party..........

i do use pierco waxed.........but i do melt some wax down, and roll it across the frames. i have used rite cell, and done the same. wood frames.

sorry to read of the loss of your father dunkel.

Dunkel · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2017, 09:07:16 am »

Thank you riverbee. Your never late. I'm just planning ahead for the next few weeks. I've been laid up with a bad back and neck scared to do much of anything but slowly improving. I am almost out of frames down to my last thirty and trying to decide which way to go. I love try things out with these suckers, when I find something working I hate to change. Has anyone had any luck with wired wax and bobby pins?

tedh · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2017, 09:31:58 am »

Hey Dunkel! Bobby pins? Please elaborate. Ted

Dunkel · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2017, 10:51:58 am »

Hey ted, instead of using the pins the companies sell to go through the holes and hold the foundation in place some people use bobbie pins. the ones the bee supply places sell are handy but somewhat costly for a lot. I've had some luck exchanging frames with a few with the normal pins if the bees drew them out fairly quickly. But those times when they start dragging there feet drawing comb they either ate around them or the heat bowed the foundation. If I could keep laying the feed to them I think it would work. But in a couple of weeks they will be nothing coming in and I haven't been in a big rush to push them to hard by feeding.