Author Topic: 5 over 5 nucs.  (Read 3612 times)

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Offline Perry

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5 over 5 nucs.
« on: June 20, 2017, 05:09:57 pm »
I had really good success with overwintering these 5 over 5 nucs. I sold the first 4 frame nucs out of these on May 30th, and dropped in queen cells I bought the next day. All hatched within 24 hours, but for whatever reason the remaining bees decided they wanted to raise their own and didn't take the planted cells. It set me back 2 weeks but the nucs are jammed again.



I have checked to see which queens have started laying but will have to boost the nucs pre-sale with frames of brood as most of the original brood has hatched out.
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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2017, 06:00:44 pm »
Howdy Perry, new guy question OK  :yes: Why do you folks do nucs, is it to sell them? Just curious and likely a dumb question.
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Offline tedh

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2017, 06:44:02 pm »
Most people do sell them, myself included, but we like to keep a few around for "spare parts".  If you need a frame of eggs, or a frame or two of brood to boost another hive, or end up needing a queen, or maybe a frame of stores.  In the fall if you have weak hives you can combine with a nuc.  I also enjoy the challenge of overwintering them and watching them EXPLODE in the spring.  Also, overwintered nucs bring a premium price.  Ted
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Offline Perry

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2017, 07:24:05 pm »
Everything Ted said.  :yes:
A lot of my income comes from nuc sales, important since I stopped moving bees to pollination.
I overwinter them so I don't have to shell out $40 per queen for imported ones that are hit and miss.
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Offline tedh

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 07:37:20 pm »
Hey Perry, we've had several, and maybe most, of the colonies/nucs we started with queen cells supersede those queens almost as soon as they started laying.  Seems it was happening with you too.  Any ideas why?  Ted
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Offline apisbees

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017, 10:09:29 pm »
the cells were they mishandled roughly? over heated or got chilled a bit to much? nurse bees will sense the lack of a queen and as long as there is young larva that can be fed fed royal jelly to make queen cells the bees will. using cell protectors will protect the introduced cells allowing that queen to emerge first and she will tear down any of the queen cells the bees have started.

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Offline tedh

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2017, 10:22:58 pm »
In our case/s the queens had emerged, mated, and were laying in what we thought to be a good pattern.  It just seems odd that so many were superseded in that way.  I will say that one of the queens was rather small, but she was laying like a champ.  Very strange.  Ted
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Offline apisbees

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 01:30:57 am »
the bees know that they are queenless and will start to draw cells from young larva. so there is resources in the hive for 6 days after removing the queen from the hive for the bees to draw out new queen cells. the cell placed in the hive will emerge in 2 days but if the bees are not satisfied that their need to split and reduce the hive population the bees will continue to raise the cells and will protect the new cells from the newly emerged queen. you also need to keep in mind that even though no eggs are being laid the population in the hive is still increasing due to the emerging of the brood. I have heard old timers say to remove the queen, leave the hive queenless and in 5 days go back in the hive and destroy all the queen cells and then introduce the new queen or cell.
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Offline Perry

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 05:46:06 am »
That's the beauty of this thing we do, it will always be challenging, and you better be "prepared" to adapt quickly as things can change on you in a second. :)
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Offline yes2matt

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2017, 02:28:25 pm »
Perry (edit: and y'all) what do you do with them in the spring? I'm imagining you might put the ten frames into a single deep, then build up from there?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 04:51:31 pm by yes2matt »

Offline Perry

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2017, 05:25:43 pm »
I just tried this last year with 30 nucs. I overwintered in 5 over 5 configuration, having started them in July last year. They overwintered well and built up quickly this spring. I pulled the queen and 4 frames for nucs, still leaving plenty of bees and brood to add queen cells to do it again in a couple of weeks. I had an issue with the process and bees went ahead and raised their own queens instead of accepting the cells in many cases.
Once I pull and sell the "second" nuc I will add cells again with what is left and allow them to build up for winter.
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Offline Sheepless

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 10:01:36 am »
Couple o' questions:

Perry: what's the unpainted board in your picture? Is that just a shim to give a top entrance? Is is attached to your migratory cover, or something you take out for winter?

Ted: am I remembering right that you use 3 mediums for your hives? So are your nucs medium sized too? 4 or 5 frame?

**********
This was my main goal for this year was to make splits to control swarming, increase my number of hives, etc. I made two splits early (not sure of the date, but before my new packages arrived May 10)...but we had a cold snap and they went back home.

The way my hives are building up I'm guessing I'll find swarm cells again either this week or next week. What I'm getting at is that you can't overshare: any advice or tricks you have would be welcome!

Offline Perry

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 12:02:39 pm »
They are just shims to allow feeding of fondant if needed as well as an upper entrance to allow for ventilation during the winter months.






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Offline Sheepless

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 12:23:07 pm »
Ooh! I like those a LOT!

So anything else to get them through the winter? If I remember right you wrap most hives with tarpaper? Anything else in the top for insulation/moisture control?

Offline Perry

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 01:37:01 pm »
Just pushed them together, 6 on a pallet, 3 facing each way. Styrofoam on the sides (not on the fronts) and 1 1/2" styrofoam sheet covering the whole shebang, with a pallet to hold it down. With the nuc pallets I used a black plastic wrap cause it is a lot easier to work with, I will probably use it for all my stuff next year.




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Offline tedh

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2017, 03:18:49 pm »
Hey Sheepless!  Our hives are the "conventional" two deeps for brood and mediums for honey supers and our nucs are five frame deeps.  We use reversable inner covers, 3/8ths deep on one side and 2 inches on the other.  Going into winter, kind of like Perry, we slide 2 five over five nucs together, put sugar cake on the top frames of each, then the inner cover with 2 inch pink foam insulation on top followed by a "specially made" tele cover that goes over both.  One tele cover for two nucs.  Then we wrap tarpaper around the sides, leaving the bottom and top entrances open, wish them luck, and check them when we can.  Ted
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Offline Les

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2017, 10:32:08 pm »
I was informed that now the lt. shoulder is pooping out on me, even after repairs done in January.  When I can't stand the pain anymore, I have a shoulder replacement in my future.  There is no way I am giving up beekeeping, so I am thinking maybe just raise my bees in double NUCS and then use smaller NUC boxes as honey supers.  Anybody have any thoughts on whether or not this would be feasible?  Since I am a hobby beek, I am not looking for large honey harvests.  Just enough to keep us supplied and for gifts.

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Offline apisbees

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 01:52:49 am »
Les you do not need to move full supers all at once. when you are pulling honey pull the frames that are ready to extract and move those frames in to 5 frame boxes as you brush the bees off them.
When going through a hive have an extra empty super to place the first frames that you remove from the super if they are the outside ones that are full of honey by the time the outside 4 frames are removed the remaining frames of brood in the super will be at a manageable weight to remove to get down to the brood in the bottom super.
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Offline Dunkel

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 09:34:41 am »
Les I really hate to here that about the shoulder.  from what I can tell the five framers take a lot of management.  Depending on the flow things can happen really fast and after a few boxes they get tall and a little unstable. I think eight frame especially in mediums would be perfect. I've also always been intrigued by the long Langley. I'm unsure of how things over winter in your area.

Offline Wandering Man

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Re: 5 over 5 nucs.
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 09:45:13 am »
I was informed that now the lt. shoulder is pooping out on me, even after repairs done in January.  When I can't stand the pain anymore, I have a shoulder replacement in my future.  There is no way I am giving up beekeeping, so I am thinking maybe just raise my bees in double NUCS and then use smaller NUC boxes as honey supers.  Anybody have any thoughts on whether or not this would be feasible?  Since I am a hobby beek, I am not looking for large honey harvests.  Just enough to keep us supplied and for gifts.

****I'm going down fighting all the way** :)

Would 8 frame langstroths be an option?  Or are you already using those?

Another option might be Top Bar hives.  You might have to convert to crush and strain for extraction, but you would just be dealing with one frame at a time, rather than large boxes.

We have a local beek who has been using top bars for 8 years and swears by them.

He builds them himself using old fencing.

The triangular shaped object on the table is one of his swarm traps, and that's how his hives used to look, only longer.

The thing on four legs on the right of the picture is what he uses now for his hives.  Not sure what kind of top bar hive it is called, but still a top bar.  Seems like you could build something like that, and maybe even continue to use foundations, more like a really long langstroth, using following boards to determine the size of the hive, rather than stacking new boxes on top.


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