Author Topic: One queenless one with laying workers....  (Read 2232 times)

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Offline Nugget Shooter

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One queenless one with laying workers....
« on: April 25, 2017, 06:26:22 pm »
OK Here is my question, I am going to pick up a new queen for one of my recent cutouts, lots of bees, no eggs nor are they making queen cups. Hopefully they accept her.

Other queenless cutout has laying workers.... 4 or 5 eggs to a cell, no larva, no brood. Is it worth trying to add a queen?

Going into Honey Hive Farms in Phoenix tomorrow and just not sure how many queens to get so looking for advise here....
Cheers, Bill

Offline Perry

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2017, 06:58:48 pm »
Laying workers rarely accept a new queen! What can be done with a laying worker hive is to install a frame of open brood once a week for a couple of weeks, and then add a new queen (unless they are trying to raise one of their own). The pheromone coming off the open brood begins to inhibit the laying workers making the hive more receptive to a new queen.
Buy one queen for now.
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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 07:04:40 pm »
Real close to what the queen seller said Perry except he said to just dump them and start over. Thanks....
Cheers, Bill

Offline Perry

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 07:37:03 pm »
I'm a softie, what can I say. I always like to give everything a chance. :-[
"It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor."      
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 07:40:52 pm »
I had that same problem just yesterday and this is what I did with a laying worker colony.  I did a shake out.  I separated the brood boxes and took them about 30 ft away from the location.  I proceeded to shake and brush every frame and walk them back to the original site, beeless.  I reassembled the hive one beeless frame at a time.  A few hours later I introduced a new queen.  They all ran over to greet her.  The laying worker had been there for some time.  I found lots and lots of drone brood on 6 or so frames. 
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Offline robo

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 08:18:21 pm »
The only method that I have found that reliably allows the introduction of a queen into a worker laying hive is the use of a queen introduction frame for 14 days.

http://www.worldwidebeekeeping.com/forum/index.php/topic,3944.msg53872.html#msg53872

Other methods work but are not as nearly successful as the queen introduction frame.  Personally I just find it easier to combine them with a queen right hive and then do a split in two weeks.

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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 09:52:58 am »
Having never combined 2 hives what would be the best method? Newspaper?
Cheers, Bill

Offline Perry

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 10:08:25 am »
Having never combined 2 hives what would be the best method? Newspaper?

 :yes: :yes: :yes:
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Offline robo

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 10:34:20 am »
For laying worker hives,  you can just put it directly on top of a queen right hive.   

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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 10:57:21 am »
OK now the next question, all 4 strong hives have medium honey supers above 2 deeps on them, the only single deep hives (2) are the queenless hives.

Soooooo can I put the laying worker hive on bottom, newspaper then other queenless hive, add queen and wait? Or will that likely end badly?

Cheers, Bill

Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 03:19:42 pm »
OK laying worker deep is now on top of another deep in one of our medium strength hives that had only began filling one frame in their medium super and had begun drawing comb on 2 other frames, one layer of newspaper is between boxes wit a few small razor cuts in it. The 3 drawn frames and honey went into a medium on another hive and going to get a queen this evening for the other queenless deep. If everything goes well I will add another couple deep frames of drawn comb with stores in them.

Fingers crossed.....  :-\

Cheers, Bill

Offline Lburou

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 04:13:37 pm »
I've spent a lot of time on a few laying worker colonies.  I'm not as patient with laying worker hives as in the past.  You can add brood and add more and add more and still end up with a laying worker hive...Been there, done that.

I don't know one way or the other about combining laying worker hives with queenright hives, but I trust Robo's advice anytime.

For myself, and at this time of year, I would shake them out and let them join other hives (removing the original hive from its place).  Once the bees join other hives and those hives are doing well, split when the time is right.  JMO   :)
Lee_Burough

Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 10:29:05 pm »
Thanks again all..... Laying worker hive combined and queenless hive has a new Carniolan queen waiting to be chewed free. They seemed darn happy to see her and forgot any type aggression.
Cheers, Bill

Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2017, 01:39:57 pm »
Well the combined deeps seem to be getting along fine and hoping the laying worker issue is resolved now, but wonder if they will now remove the eggs from cells containing several each. I am guessing they will and all should be well  :-\

The other queenless hive is looking good from the outside now with the once idle and confused looking workers bringing in loads of pollen and nectar. I did not want to look inside yet since it has only been a few days and I don't want to upset the apple cart so to speak. Hopefully their new Carinolan queen is laying by now and all is well...
Cheers, Bill

Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: One queenless one with laying workers....
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2017, 11:39:29 am »
No eggs, no larva, could not find queen  :no: Guess I will look again in another week and hope to see evidence she is actually in there laying and if not combine this hive with another as well.
Cheers, Bill