Author Topic: Am I on the right track?  (Read 5362 times)

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Offline SmokeyBee

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Am I on the right track?
« on: March 28, 2017, 06:37:07 pm »
Hello, new board member here. Brand new to beekeeping and I wanted to see if the collective wisdom thinks I'm doing things sensibly thus far.

I installed a package of bees 10 days ago, along with my neighbor. We have the two hives together on my property far away from his kids. I have a 10- frame deep right now. I removed the queen cage and located the queen 6 days after I put the bees in. The bees had started to draw put comb on the four center frames. They are going through about 1/2 quart of sugar water a day right now. I watched the entrance and I've watched a few of them returning with a "full load" of pollen. I think that everything is humming along now as it should.

My plan is to wait until 6 or 7 frames are full, then add a medium box on top of the deep. Once the medium has filled out 6-7 frames I plan on adding a queen separator and a medium super. I doubt that it will get to that point my first season.

Does this sound about right? I've learned that if you ask 5 beekeepers you will get 5 different opinions, haha. These bees are fascinating to watch; I'm pretty hooked already and planning to expand next year. I live in South Carolina where its in the upper 70s now.

Thanks,
Smokey

Offline robo

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2017, 07:11:42 pm »
Most folks don't like using queen excluders, in fact,  many refer to them as "honey excluder".   Unless you are planning to do cut comb honey they just add a level of complexity that is not worth it.   Bees will not go through an excluder to work foundation, you need drawn comb above.  For a first year beekeeper, I would worry about getting your comb drawn out the first year and forgo the excluder.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

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Offline SmokeyBee

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2017, 07:30:32 pm »
Most folks don't like using queen excluders, in fact,  many refer to them as "honey excluder".   Unless you are planning to do cut comb honey they just add a level of complexity that is not worth it.   Bees will not go through an excluder to work foundation, you need drawn comb above.  For a first year beekeeper, I would worry about getting your comb drawn out the first year and forgo the excluder.

Thanks, I hadn't heard this. I assumed the idea was to keep eggs, etc. out of thesupers. Thankfully I hadn't bought one yet.

Offline Perry

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2017, 07:51:24 pm »
 :welcome: Glad you found us here.

Second, you're wrong about the beekeeper/opinion thing. If you ask 5 keeps the same question you'll get a lot more than 5 opinions. :laugh:
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Offline vvand111

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2017, 09:12:31 pm »
True Perry, but one must do his best to listen.  Do not use the excluder now. You can make that decision later. I can promise you it will not hurt you now.  These guys know there stuff

Offline Wandering Man

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2017, 10:33:58 pm »
Welcome to the forum.
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Offline riverbee

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2017, 11:36:27 pm »
"My plan is to wait until 6 or 7 frames are full, then add a medium box on top of the deep. Once the medium has filled out 6-7 frames I plan on adding a queen separator and a medium super. I doubt that it will get to that point my first season."

"Most folks don't like using queen excluders, in fact,  many refer to them as "honey excluder".   Unless you are planning to do cut comb honey they just add a level of complexity that is not worth it.   Bees will not go through an excluder to work foundation, you need drawn comb above.  For a first year beekeeper, I would worry about getting your comb drawn out the first year and forgo the excluder."

"Thanks, I hadn't heard this. I assumed the idea was to keep eggs, etc. out of thesupers. Thankfully I hadn't bought one yet."

smokeybee,
first WELCOME to the forum!

queen excluders, this is a debate among many beekeepers whether to use or not.  like anything else, a personal preference, experience, and management. 

like robo said, and i will add, anytime comb needs to be drawn leave the queen excluder off.  it is a hindrance to the bees.

i do use queen excluders, i don't consider them 'honey excluders' used properly. i do cut comb honey and i don't care for the queen laying up in my honey supers, whether i have cut comb honey frames in or not. just my preference.

for you now, a first year beek and package bees....... like robo said concentrate on getting the frames drawn and leave the excluder off.

if for some reason, your bees/queen gets ahead of you, frames are drawn, and the queen is laying up in the frames, and you don't want her to AND you are up to the challenge; find the queen, make sure she's not in the super, if she is move her down. place your excluder on if you choose to. the bees will take care of the brood above the excluder. the bees will take care of the brood and will revert the cells to honey cells.


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Offline kebee

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2017, 06:04:23 am »
 Welcome SmokeyBee to the forum, glad to have you here with us.

Ken
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2017, 08:39:43 am »
Welcome Smokey!
Now, for another opinion.
I believe in queen excluders.  If there is a strong nectar flow they will draw out the comb in a super.  Just remember to stop feeding sugar syrup when you have a super(s) on.  Yes, the excluder is to keep the queen from laying eggs up there which will darken the comb and make the honey darker. 
In my area we wait until the bees have drawn out 7-8 frames with comb before putting another brood box or super on.  An old bee guy I know calls it the "Rule of 7's".  I personally think he made that phrase up.  :D  But I sure remember it and it works.

Offline robo

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2017, 09:41:18 am »

if for some reason, your bees/queen gets ahead of you, frames are drawn, and the queen is laying up in the frames, and you don't want her to AND you are up to the challenge; find the queen, make sure she's not in the super, if she is move her down. place your excluder on if you choose to. the bees will take care of the brood above the excluder. the bees will take care of the brood and will revert the cells to honey cells.

One word of caution.  If you take this route, there is a good chance they will raise a queen above the queen excluder.  If there is an upper entrance you will get a mated queen,  if not a drone layer.   This is the method Brother Adam refers to as queen rearing in a queen-right hive.

Yet another one of the "issues" a queen excluder can cause a beginner.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Offline SmokeyBee

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2017, 02:06:20 pm »
Thanks for all the replies...other than the excluder, does the rest of my process sound right (i.e. single deep brood box until 60-70% full, then an additional medium, etc.)?

I'm also surprised at how much sugar water they're going through. Thanks again- Smokey

Offline robo

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2017, 02:19:34 pm »
If single deep is the norm for your area, then yes.    I would just caution you to keep an eye on what they are doing with the syrup you are feeding them.  If they are using it to build wax that is great.   If they start turning it into capped sugar honey then stop feeding.  You want plenty of room for the queen to raise brood.


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Offline riverbee

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2017, 11:28:09 pm »

if for some reason, your bees/queen gets ahead of you, frames are drawn, and the queen is laying up in the frames, and you don't want her to AND you are up to the challenge; find the queen, make sure she's not in the super, if she is move her down. place your excluder on if you choose to. the bees will take care of the brood above the excluder. the bees will take care of the brood and will revert the cells to honey cells.

One word of caution.  If you take this route, there is a good chance they will raise a queen above the queen excluder.  If there is an upper entrance you will get a mated queen,  if not a drone layer.   This is the method Brother Adam refers to as queen rearing in a queen-right hive.

Yet another one of the "issues" a queen excluder can cause a beginner.

a possibility, in my own experience, i have yet to have this happen.

smokey what robo said about feeding the sugar syrup.
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Offline Bakersdozen

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2017, 08:45:18 am »
Smokey, Robo and riverbee have more beekeeping experience than I will ever have.  But, my theory is, if you put the queen excluder on in the first place, you will never have to worry about queen cells or eggs and larvae in your honey supers. For a beginner, it is less to be concerned and overwhelmed about. 
Yes, when you get 6,7, or 8 frames drawn out, put another brood box on top.  When the second box gets 6,7,or8 frames drawn out then you consider a honey super, with or without a queen excluder.  :)
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Offline SmokeyBee

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 12:54:05 pm »
Robo (and the rest),

Can you elaborate on why I should stop feeding now? I was just in the hive yesterday and there are nice "footballs" of capped brood on the 4 center frames. They look really good (to me), without any gaps in the brood cells. There is also an arc of capped honey cells around the brood footballs with pollen cells in the margin. On the outer frames they are just starting to draw out empty comb.

I thought the idea with a new hive (from a package) was to feed the heck out of them so they didn't have to work as hard to make wax the first season.

I guess I get that the capped honey cells might otherwise be brood cells, I don't know. I realize there are a lot of differing opinions on feeding. This hive is on it's 18th day since I installed the package and I think it's rolling like it should.

Appreciate any thoughts from the group on stopping/continuing feeding.

Thanks-Smokey

Offline robo

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2017, 01:17:45 pm »
I didn't say stop,  just advised to keep an eye on it.  What you describe sounds excellent.   You just need to keep an eye on them.  If they start making full frames of syrup then you need to cut back.   Once you put on honey supers you also need to stop as they will make sugar honey out of it.

Normally when they get a good nectar flow they will stop taking the syrup and that is a sign to stop as well.

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Offline riverbee

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2017, 01:21:50 pm »
i wouldn't stop feeding a package of bees until the frames are drawn, unless the bees are backfilling brood space with sugar syrup that the queen needs to lay in.  syrup also helps give a kick start for sustaining the bees (not enough forage work force) and also keeps the queen laying and the bees drawing comb.  i do not depend on a flow when hiving package bees or nucs, to sustain them, or get them to draw comb if need be. with that said, i also keep one peeper on what the bees are doing with the syrup.

the arc is normal, this is what we want to see.  if you start seeing syrup being stuffed in the center frames of the brood chamber, (other than an arc above the brood).  then it is time to pull the feed.  once the outer frames are drawn the bees will use these for honey/pollen storage.
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Offline SmokeyBee

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2017, 08:26:02 am »
Thanks once again. I will keep asking as I go...

Offline Lburou

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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2017, 10:20:40 am »
:welcome: Glad you found us here.

Second, you're wrong about the beekeeper/opinion thing. If you ask 5 keeps the same question you'll get a lot more than 5 opinions. :laugh:
Every beekeeping answer, in order to be correct, should begin with, "It depends,..."
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Re: Am I on the right track?
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2017, 11:32:29 am »

Every beekeeping answer, in order to be right, should begin with, "It depends..."

Or, it should start with "the first time I did that ..., however, the next time I tried it ... etc." 

And finish with "Either way, it's up to you.  Let me know how it works out."
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