Author Topic: Swarm today !!  (Read 2463 times)

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Offline vvand111

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Swarm today !!
« on: March 25, 2017, 10:34:16 pm »
This will probably only make sense if you read the earlier post  Swarm Today

I took capped brood and some larva out of hive 2 and put it into the deep that I put the swarm in from number 1.  If you read previous post you will see what and how I have handled this in the last 2 days.

Today as I mentioned earlier there was a new cluster above where I had removed 4 clusters from swarm hive #1 . It started somewhat small but became about 2 feet long and 12 inches in diameter   I fashioned a 5 gallon bucket on a 15 foot pole to get to the same heights I was yesterday to retrieve them , thinking maybe I did not get the queen..  Within 5 minutes of being in the wood shop and coming back out the cluster had disappeared. GONE! 

In the next 15 minutes hive # 2 started to swarm   We were absolutely amazed as I stood in the middle of that swarm, listened and watched.  This swarm went on for 45 minutes and they settled in the same tree only 6 feet higher.  This swarm was tremendous in size.  They settled on 4 or 5 different branches and weighed them all down. They spread out to different limbs and all were to the max.

I had to go cook for the event I had previously committed to so I had to leave.  Over the next several hours they all consolidated down and right above may ladder I left in place from yesterday. This is what I am being told as I did not get home until after dark.

I find this very strange.  2 hives swarm within 48 hours of each other and swarm to the same tree with in 15 or 20 feet from the hive. Yes they went up but not very far from hive.

Do you guys know about this??

I will be back up in tree in morning to try to retrieve a swam of my # 2 hive.   

Read what I have posted in both of these threads and you will completely understand why I am perplexed about all of this.

( the beginning issue is that I should have been listening to the bees as opposed to common practices as to time of year)  Nothing common about this winter or spring. 

     

Offline Perry

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2017, 07:02:23 am »
Usually if one hive goes (swarms) it is a pretty good idea to check them all. That said, it is not at all uncommon for swarms to land in the same tree or even on the same branch, it happens fairly often. You will find when you go and check outyards which trees to look at when driving in  :-[ :D :D.
Whenever you hive a swarm, particularly when it has been there a while, you can never be sure that returning foragers have not already found another place that they are excited about and the swarm leaves for that one.
Do your best with this next one, make sure you have some brood and feed to try and anchor them.
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Offline Mikey N.C.

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2017, 08:55:31 am »
When you took frames of brood from hive #2 did you replace them with something?

Offline vvand111

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2017, 10:32:19 am »
yes. all I had was empty plastic foundation

Offline vvand111

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2017, 10:41:19 am »




This was the cluster 35 feet up.  Got about 3/4 or better of it this morning

Offline vvand111

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2017, 11:40:40 am »
OK this is really becoming weird.  I was considering going back up to get more bees and as I was preparing to go up the cluster, about 25% of what the pic above is, started to act as if they were going to swam.  I waited and watched as they did swarm and swarmed back into the original hive. They have been going back into the hive that they came from for the last 45 minutes.


Offline vvand111

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2017, 11:47:05 am »




Still coming back.  What to do except leave them??

Offline Lburou

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2017, 02:31:20 pm »
If there was ever a time for a hive manipulation to fool the bees into thinking they have swarmed, this seems like one!

HERE is a link to a description of artificial swarm manipulations you can do now to fool the bees and KEEP all the bees.  Some of the methods are complicated, but choose one...and be quick about it.  The Taranov method should work for you (I've never tried it though).  Another Taranov link with pictures.   HTH   :)
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Offline vvand111

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2017, 03:35:08 pm »
Thank L   By the time I got your post I was already out of town. Just got back in this afternoon with my 4 knew nucs and am working on getting them settled in position to transfer to 10 deep frame brood box tomorrow.

I lot going on with bees right now.  Questions and thoughts.

# 1 hive   the 1st swarm.  I retrieved this from the tree and there were so many bees I placed them into a double deep 10 frame brood box.  I pulled a frame of larva and capped brood from my Hive # 2 and put it in bottom deep. I then fed a full feeder of 1-1 sugar water and closed them up.
I have not been in to check yet but it seems to me that my #1 must have had queen cells ready and the swarm that I captured hopefully has the queen in the capture.  It would seem to me to wait a few more days on both of these hives to inspect as they have already split themselves so to speak.

# 2 hive  the 2ed swarm  I retrieved about 3/4 of this swarm and also because of such a large population(see pic above) I put these bees in a 2 deep brood box but had no extra brood to put in with them as my #1 is depleted and my #2 is depleted. (Plenty left but thought twice  about stealing anymore) 

When I was preparing to go up to get the re cluster of this swam they swarmed by themselves back into the # 2 hive that they came from.
 Would I be on the right assumption that I must have gotten the queen with my retrieval and after they re congregated in tree they realized they had no queen and decided to go back the hive #2 where there were plenty of stores as well as queen cells.

This scenario would leave me with no queen in # 1, no queen in #2 possible queen in #3 and probable Queen in # 4  This tells me to sit tight at least 2 to 3 more days so I can possibly see eggs or larva in any 1 of these hives and determine at that time what to do next??

I realize this may be hard to follow but this is the situation as I see it right now.  All advice is appreciated.

Thanks

Offline tedh

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2017, 05:17:43 pm »
I'm just shooting from the hip here vvand111, so keep that in mind.  It seems to me you need to see what is happening in both parent hives and both captured swarms.  I'm not sure of the timelines as far as the swarms are concerned so I'll start with the parent hives.  Carefully inspect for eggs or swarm cells.  Once you find either in BOTH parent hives carefully close them back up.  If you locate eggs you can commence your "normal" inspections/manipulations.  If you find queen cells leave them alone long enough for queen to emerge, mate and start laying.  I'd give her an extra week but that's just me.  As for the captured swarms, again shooting from the hip, I'd wait a week before you inspect. You will be looking for eggs or very young larva.  With no drawn wax you will probably (not sure of your seasons) need to feed until they have some drawn frames to work with.  If you don't find eggs I would button them up and check again a week later.

The scenario you laid out is possible.  Maybe you got the queen on the first capture the remaining bees went home. Maybe the queen hadn't made it to the swarm yet.  No matter the scenario, my thought is to find out whats happening now.  Best of luck, Ted
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Offline Perry

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 05:22:26 pm »
Bee very careful when inspecting any of these hives for a few days. Any inspection could damage queen cells and leave you in a real bind. Also, virgin queens are very nervous, hard to spot, and can fly worth the dickens, so be careful.
When in doubt, leave well enough alone. In several days things will have settled down enough you will have a clear idea what is going on.
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Offline tedh

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 05:43:31 pm »
Good advice right there!  Thanks Perry.
Share that which you have an abundance of.  In doing so both the giver and receiver are enriched.

Offline tedh

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2017, 06:21:33 pm »
Hey Perry, you mentioned waiting "several days".  Could you be more specific?  Five days?  A week?  Ten days?  Two weeks?  Longer?  Thanks man.  Ted
Share that which you have an abundance of.  In doing so both the giver and receiver are enriched.

Offline vvand111

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2017, 06:47:12 pm »
I did a post but It got lost.  I think I am going to wait until this week end to go into any of these hives.  I think that might be a little too early but I need the opportunity for the queen cells to hatch, fly and come back to start laying.  I understand that is at least 10 days from a swarm and maybe 15 days from swarm.

Offline robo

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2017, 09:49:21 pm »
Had a hard time following all the things that went on, but will share some thoughts on what I think happened.

1)  Adding brood to a captured swarm is a good anchor but is more effort and takes resources away from another hive.   What I find is easier and more definative is to put a queen excluder between the bottom board and the bottom deep for 2-3 days.   This acts like a queen "includer" and does not allow her to abscond.   After a couple of days she should start laying and the excluder can be removed.  This assumes you have the queen in the box and it is a primary swarm.   When you see bees fanning at the entrance and bees entering on their own, the queen is in there.

2)  It is not uncommon for a swarm to leave and the queen not go with them.   In this case they will return to the hive and try again another day.

3)  Another great time to have marked queens, then you can definitively know who went where.

4)  I got tired of loosing swarms 50 feet up in trees, so now clip my queens.   Puddle swarms are a piece of cake :-)

5)  You did the right thing in going up the tree to get them (safety and health risk aside)  I have never had luck trying to bait a swarm after they have left the hive.   The only thing that has worked for me is to get a rope thrown over the branch and hoist a drawn comb frame physically in contact with the cluster and they will migrate to the comb and you can lower it then.   The comb MUST be in contact.  I have had them ignore a comb less than a foot away and fly off.

6) Induced swarming is far easier and better results than natural swarming.    Catch them building swarm cells and then move the queen and some bees to a nuc.  Always take the queen and leave two cells.  Taking the queen breaks the swarming urge.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

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Offline Nugget Shooter

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2017, 05:49:00 pm »
Thanks for a great thread.... Learning.....  :yes: :yes:
Cheers, Bill

Offline Lburou

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Re: Swarm today !!
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2017, 08:50:42 pm »
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Nugget Shooter, my wife asked me if you had noticed whether or not the spring rains this year had uncovered any easy gold?
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