Author Topic: Hard lesson for a new beek.... (Read 3002 times)

Nugget Shooter · « **on:** March 04, 2017, 03:00:16 pm »

They were starving.... that is why the dead bees and ejected pupa. Opened all 6 hives today and there was zero nectar and zero honey stores left despite the zillions of flowers blooming right now. Not yet understanding flows I thought we were good to go and stopped feeding 30 to 40 (or more) days back and at that time they had plenty in my uneducated opinion and this was the result... Some lessons are much harder than others are they not?

So back to feeding for a bit again and will stop when sure enough nectar is coming in to support the colony hoping I will see and understand when I can again stop.

So apparently we are in a pollen flow and not nectar? Gee there is so much to learn and I hope the little critters recover from my blunder in sufficient numbers and strength to still make some honey when the nectar I thought was surly coming in actually flow....

Pouting in Morristown, Bill

sc-bee · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2017, 03:09:11 pm »

Sorry you hit a snag... It is not uncommon for folks to feed early and spur a brood rearing frenzy. Then if you stop and the brood emerges they whip through stores in short order. Hang in there....

Lburou · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2017, 03:42:31 pm »

It is a bigger mistake to discover this after the bees are dead from starvation. Congratulations for venturing outside our advice to find your bees need food. I would still bet this is two separate issues: Cold nights while eating a lot of food to raise brood. Well done!

P.S. I think it is common for pollen to come in early with little or no nectar flow. The apiary smells different during a honey flow. We had ten days or two weeks of pollen flow last month before I smelled a honey flow while passing downwind of the bees.

Perry · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2017, 04:08:58 pm »

Up here goldenrod blooms weeks before there is any nectar flow.
Congrats on "getting in there" to be sure what was going on!

Nugget Shooter · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2017, 04:17:25 pm »

I give the credit back my friends

Though I am a tad thick headed as well as furry (Perry) I do listen and one thing that is echoed here over and over is to have a look to be sure if possible. It sunk in

I agree also with you Lee in that perhaps the cold snap and lack of food together allowed for an early warning that there was an issue that required my immediate attention. This in itself with what I have learned from you folks limited the noticeable damage to only one colony

I do now have many frames of sparkling clean drawn comb though $:-\$

Perry · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2017, 04:54:32 pm »

OK, going back. One thing I noticed but it didn't click until you made this post. I had noticed that a lot of the larve/pupae hard their proboscis extended, often indicating starvation. Always easy to see with 20/20 hindsight.

Check out your third pic.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2017, 05:03:24 pm »

Well spotted Perry, glad you went back to check them NuggetShooter!

Nugget Shooter · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2017, 06:05:18 pm »

I did not see that as important either..... But will now.

Mikey N.C. · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2017, 07:04:37 pm »

Nug,
How many weeks of rain did ya have ? Is there a possibility that alot of rain could have kept them in to long( not being able to leave) ?

CBT · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2017, 09:34:20 pm »

Some keep syrup on so they can get it during a warm periods in a warm winter climate. If they don't want it they want take it.

rober · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2017, 10:04:45 pm »

I would keep feeding until they quit taking it. they know when there are better food sources & will quit taking syrup when better options become available.

Nugget Shooter · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2017, 10:11:07 pm »

"Nug,
How many weeks of rain did ya have ? Is there a possibility that alot of rain could have kept them in to long( not being able to leave) ?"

Yes very possible, all new to me so learning.....

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2017, 11:01:14 pm »

In your country, feed 2:1 or add some bleach so it doesn't ferment when the bees decide they don't want it anymore. You're doing great and you figured out what happened and how to fix it--that's how we all learn. My big goal is to remember from my mistakes long enough so I don't make the same mistake again

It gets harder the older I get

Most years in almonds, the bees get an abundance of pollen and just enough nectar to get by. Some years, there is more nectar than others but you never know for sure how things will shake out unless you are there and can feed when needed. This year, my hives were heavy and I wondered if I was throwing $$ away as I pumped their feeders full of syrup. Turns out the cool weather reduced the nectar flow so it was money well spent. I've heard of a few others who didn't feed and then it got too muddy to get to the hives to feed them. I was lucky to get a good weather window and luckier to fill those feeders.

riverbee · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2017, 12:57:03 am »

'They were starving.... that is why the dead bees and ejected pupa. Opened all 6 hives today and there was zero nectar and zero honey stores left despite the zillions of flowers blooming right now. Not yet understanding flows I thought we were good to go and stopped feeding 30 to 40 (or more) days back and at that time they had plenty in my uneducated opinion and this was the result... Some lessons are much harder than others are they not?
So back to feeding for a bit again and will stop when sure enough nectar is coming in to support the colony hoping I will see and understand when I can again stop.
So apparently we are in a pollen flow and not nectar?'

from perry:
"I had noticed that a lot of the larve/pupae hard their proboscis extended, often indicating starvation."

yes, absolutely starvation.

nugget, when we start feeding do not stop feeding until the bees stop taking the feed or ignore the feed irregardless of whether there is a flow on, or we see flowers blooming, etc.......this may not sustain them. all flowers are not nectar and pollen resources for honey bees. we learn which ones are. even then, it may not be enough to sustain our bees.

this is something i sometimes see or get a call from a beek in the spring after they have successfully overwintered bees; many beeks are under the impression that 'flowers blooming' or there is a 'flow on' and take feed off only to lose their bees to starvation. some beeks also think that because there is a flow on there is no need to feed. if bees don't have enough resources in the hive, they will perish.

nugget, i would not stop feeding them until the feed is ignored and sufficient stores are in the hive, and checked regularly. don't depend on a flow.

pollen/nectar flows..........we can experience dearths of both. we can have one without the other or both to some degree.
lack of pollen; queens may not lay as much, drones will be dragged out or won't see a drone population that would be normal under good nectar/pollen flows. also, lack of pollen does not meet bees nutritional needs for healthy bees. we can feed them pollen subs/supplements. i have not had to do this too often. with nectar flows, i have had to feed colonies (and strong colonies) in nectar dearths to sustain them, or leave frames/supers of honey on, and when those ran out the feed went back on.

"Some lessons are much harder than others are they not?"

yes, many are and will be.............but just hang in there...........

Nugget Shooter · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2017, 11:17:12 am »

Thanks for the advise everyone and I have one more question, this one about the syrup. 2:1 or 1:1 in this situation?

Perry · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2017, 12:46:27 pm »

Normally I would say 1 to 1, but I like Chip's suggestion and at this point go 2 to 1 (sugar to water), keep it thick enough that the bees don't have to work too hard.

sc-bee · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2017, 12:48:20 pm »

Some beeks feed 5:3 at any time....

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2017, 12:54:17 pm »

If they are starving, the 2:1 will get them relief faster. I feed some 1:1 but wind up hating myself most of the time due to fermentation issues. I seem to think the bees will take it fast enough that it would be used before it ferments but my plans don't always work the way I want. You can also add bleach and some other things to it to stop fermentation. This year, I don't plan to use 1:1 at all. I usually feed multiple times and the thicker syrup cuts the number of trips in half.

Nugget Shooter · « **Reply #18 on:** March 05, 2017, 02:30:36 pm »

Just realized you already answered my question before I asked Chip, thank you....

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #19 on:** March 05, 2017, 03:53:01 pm »

Nugget, did the bees draw comb in the top boxes over the past few weeks? Was thinking you had only had foundation up top. If they did draw out good comb for you, you had a strong flow but it was likely brief and didn't let the bees keep up the momentum. From my experience, a real gusher of a flow, even one of sort duration, will yield some nice drawn comb if there's little space and the queen is laying hard. The spring flow in North Dakota often produces abundant but fairly watery nectar that doesn't last long. Some years, I shake some out plus add extra empty drawn frames as I'm making splits; at such times, the queen doesn't have avery many nectar-free cells for laying. I think you'll be surprised how quickly they rebound when you add a good 2:1 sucrose syrup, especially if you invert it with acid.