Author Topic: Spring Divides (Read 21721 times)

riverbee · « **on:** January 23, 2014, 12:36:17 pm »

many of us are new to beekeeping, and there seems to be some apprehension and questions on dividing hives. here is a good article that discusses basic methods of spring divides. first and foremost, decide the purpose of the divide and what do you want to accomplish? swarm management, increase (more bees), honey production (more honey) or other reason. i know some might say, i just want to know how to divide a hive..... but these are important factors, and your decision will also be based on your hives. there are many ways to divide hives, this article discusses some basic methods that work well.

from the article:

"before going into the apiary, you need to decide what purpose you have in mind for these new splits. Are they for swarm prevention? Will they go into honey or queen production? Are they to be sold off? Or, are they just more pets to look after? There are slight differences when making up the splits for each of the above cases. Also, the strength of the original colony will play a role as well. They may not be strong enough to make splits yet, or so strong as to be able to make more than one."

here is the article:

SPLITS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS-BEE CULTURE

i may employ one or more method when dividing hives, and it is always based on the criteria i mentioned above, purpose, goal, colony strength and health. this is my method of madness when it comes divides in spring.....i use one of or all 3 of these methods for divides. also i use all double deeps.

#1. with the strongest colonies, i may do an equal divide, so if i have 5 strong colonies to divide, i wind up with 10, and the queen-less box gets a purchased caged queen. everything is divided equally between. i just take the top deep off , set it next to the bottom deep and proceed to divide the frames equally, and maybe shake some extra nurse bees into the deep i am dividing into. you want make sure both boxes have enough nurse bees. feed.

#2. maybe i don't want an equalization and 5 more hives, maybe i want to keep a colony or other colonies strong for the honey flow and some comb honey but divide it enough to keep her from swarming. this requires a bit of knowledge of what's in your hives. i'll take a deep (or two, etc..., or maybe some nuc boxes) and i'll gather 3-5 frames of brood of all stages, maybe from one hive, or collectively from the strong hives, meaning a frame or two from hive 1, a frame or two from hive 2, etc....and frames of pollen and honey, also removed from each of the various hives, and extra shakes of nurse bees. you want to make sure there are enough bees to cover the brood. so, a mini deep if you will (light divide). this new hive deep gets a caged queen, and feed. this is also a good way to utilize bees to draw foundation. * a note on this, i use 9 frames in my deeps rather than 10.

#3. nucs. i use 5 frame nuc boxes. so, 2 frames of brood all stages, a frame of honey, a frame of pollen, and an empty drawn frame. shakes of nurse bees. caged queen. feed.

fire away any questions, or contribute how you divide your hives, or would teach another.

Jen · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2014, 02:48:40 pm »

Thank You riv- Yes! I am still a little apprehensive, I think this article will help a lot!

tbonekel · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2014, 05:57:18 pm »

I'm hoping to divide a hive this spring. I have never done it, but it doesn't look too difficult. That was a good article. Thanks for the link!

riverbee · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2014, 06:14:26 pm »

i still remember dividing hives for the first time, i was very apprehensive, was afraid of squashing the queen, didn't want to mess up moving the frames around, was afraid of putting a new queen in, and many other questions/fears in my mind. it really is not difficult, and once done, you will say to yourself, that wasn't so hard! and you will gain confidence the next time around and with each spring season. then become 2nd nature. also you will be excited and impatient to see that divide or divides you did grow into a thriving colony/colonies.....pretty cool. that's the reward!

Crofter · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2014, 06:25:08 pm »

Since you will very likely want to find the queen I would suggest that you get into the hive as early as the weather permits and find her and mark her if she is not. There will be a whole lot less bees to deal with then than later.

I had one hive I simply could not find the queen in after going through twice plus dumping them on the ground in front of the hive with a queen excluder on the bottom. She may have gone into the hive next door as the boxes were close together.

Another suggestion depending on the type of queen and the type of cage, decide whether you want to discard the accompanying workers, and ensure the release candy passage is stuffed full not nearly empty. That will affect queen release time. If you are putting a queen with some russian and carn blood into a italian hive they may need a little extra time for assured acceptance. I made up a queen muff so I could work in without worrying about the queen flying off.

Riverbee could likely give you some advice with that type of bee!

Jen · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2014, 09:07:25 pm »

Crofter- ""Since you will very likely want to find the queen I would suggest that you get into the hive as early as the weather permits and find her and mark her if she is not.""

I don't know how to do that. That would make a good thread of it's own...

tecumseh · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2014, 06:22:43 am »

well of course there is no law that say you really have to find the queen.

Crofter · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2014, 09:18:47 am »

Quote from: tecumseh on January 24, 2014, 06:22:43 am

well of course there is no law that say you really have to find the queen.

If you want to put a new queen in one half or both halfs wouldn't you want to find the old queen to keep new queen from being killed.

If a walk away split wouldn't it be best to leave the queenless part with more stores and perhaps at the original location.

What measures should you take when you cant locate the queen?

Jen · « **Reply #8 on:** January 24, 2014, 11:54:56 pm »

Crofter- ""If you want to put a new queen in one half or both halfs wouldn't you want to find the old queen to keep new queen from being killed.""

Still trying to puzzle piece your three questions, so I'll start with the first.

I think I would try very hard to find the original queen. In my case she's only 1 year old and doing a good job. Then, the queenless half I would buy a queen for it. But that is an ideal situation.

Then, another senario that I read on this forum was to put the queen in the second split with brood and eggs. Then the first part of the split is already set up with eggs and brood, and possibly new queen cells.

Crofter · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:41:52 am »

When I did the splits last year I put a new mated queen in each one, so I needed to find the old queens which I pulled out and used to start small nucs with.

If you have difficulty finding the old queen in a double deep you want to split, you can go ahead and divvy the frames up in the two boxes so they each have roughly the same numbers of frames of brood, pollen, honey and empty drawn comb. If you find the queen during this that is good, If you do not find her, place a queen excluder over the lower box and place the other box on top. Go back in 4 days and see which box has eggs and you will know where the queen is. Introduce your new queen to the other box after checking thoroughly that they haven't started building queen cells.

It is claimed that you can tell be the sound of the bees when a hive is queenless but with my mucked up hearing it doesnt seem to work for me.

It probably would be a good thread to start on methods of finding the queens and work arounds when you cannot find her.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2014, 09:08:43 am »

I can usually find the queen now.. was a time I couldnt... Helping another beek find/catch queens he needs to ship or deliver is AMAZING practice.. After a time, your eye is DRAWN to her, and I have found myself staring at the queen without realizing what I was looking at for several moments. Read from another thread.post/forum...

Early splits I like to do into Nuc's with the old queen. I like doing strong nuc splits, it leaves the old hive Strong, yet removes enough bees and the old queen so they will think they swarmed. Have plenty of room to regrow and produce a good honey crop...
A queen excluder over a nuc box, with an empty box on top helps.. I shake all the bees off the frames in one box. into the other brood box. Set that box aside. 5 frames go into the nuc. Preferably filled frames. three with brood of all ages and stages, one honey, one pollen.

So at this point, we have a box missing 5 frames. Usually a mid box, but it really doesnt matter. Shake three full frames of nurse bees into the nuc. Check for queen on the excluder... Remove excluder, put top box back on the nuc and put 5 drawn, empty comb from the sides of the hive you are working into the top nuc box, (NO BEES) cover, make sure its well ventilated and the entrances are screened and set aside.
I take the now empty box, place the replacement frames in it.. if I am swapping frames about, I shake them off, and put them where they will go in the boxes, insuring the one box is devoid of bees. Put the excluder on top of it, then proceed to shake bees and swap the frames to another empty box as I go until I find the queen running about on the top of the excluder. Catch her, usually in a queen clip and immediately transfer her to the nuc. I wait about four hours before installing the caged queen. I dont pull the cork on the candy side till the next day.
Remove Nuc to an outyard, or reverse the entrance and partially block so the bees reorient.
If you cant take the time to find the queen, using the excluder filter method works..

I would give credit to whoever posted that but I didnt copy/paste their name..

G3farms · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2014, 07:23:24 pm »

Quote from: Crofter on January 25, 2014, 07:41:52 am

It is claimed that you can tell by the sound of the bees when a hive is queenless

Yep it does work, and in fairly short order most times.
The bees will make a "roaring" sound with their wings. Not sure but I think they are trying to fan pheromones around the hive to locate the queen.

Jen · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2014, 12:59:09 pm »

How do I know if my double deep hive has enough bees in it to make a split? All's I want to do is have two hives so I can have a back up system, and gleen some honey for myself.

tefer2 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2014, 01:34:49 pm »

When we first started beekeeping, finding the queen was darn near an impossible task.
What helped us the most was making up a few five frame nucs. Then weekly, I would go find the queen in each one. After some practice you will get better at picking her out on a frame.
I always start by looking where the most bees are in the hive. Then hold each frame at arms length, looking at the whole frame rather than each bee on it. The queen being so much larger helps your eyes pick up her movements. Having marked queens simplifies to whole process. It took me awhile to pick up on the roar of a queenless stack.

iddee · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2014, 02:16:17 pm »

Jen, you can buy a nuc, or make a split and buy local honey. Your choice.

Jen · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2014, 03:08:49 pm »

Iddee- your answer was too cut and dried!

I need a 150 more replies before I can make up my mind

iddee · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2014, 03:18:51 pm »

How about if I just send you a jar of honey and you order a nuc. Then you can have the best of both worlds.

Crofter · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2014, 03:49:07 pm »

This is going to be a long thread: 150 more posts! Can I post more than once?

I think Iddee is saying that if you split your hive you likely wont get honey from either split this year. You might be able to steal the odd frame but you will not leave them with enough stores for winter if you do. From my experience last season you will have to leave everything they make and still have to feed to get them to wintering weight. Granted it was a below average year. If you had 20 frames of fully drawn comb to add to the splits they might make a bit of surplus. That would be the case in my climate anyways.

riverbee · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2014, 04:35:36 pm »

jen, true, divides sometimes do not make a lot of extra honey, but that doesn't mean you can't take out one frame of honey, for yourself that they do make. but just consider what that leaves them with. don't take anything away from them that they might need during a dearth or going into winter months, or be prepared to feed them to replace what you have taken. hope this makes sense.

Crofter · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2014, 04:57:32 pm »

It is common practice in some areas to take almost all the honey and feed back 5 or 6 gallons of 2:1 sugar syrup but it takes some know how to do it without causing robbing or flooding the brood nest at the time the bees are doing the fall brood rearing. It has to be done early enough so the bees get time to get it in and dehydrated before it gets too cold. Simply putting 10 pounds of dry sugar on top of the frames wont do it.