Author Topic: Crazy Idea (Read 4525 times)

Chip Euliss · « **on:** November 30, 2016, 07:31:52 pm »

Don't know if any of you have thoughts on this but I thought I'd ask before I wrap. I shipped essentially all of my bees to California since somebody needed "extra" bees to fill out a semi-load. I put 408 double deep hives on a load of their own and another hundred on another truck to help a fellow beekeeper who wanted someone to share the expense of a truck ride to California. I'm left with 4 really strong singles and 2 double deeps. I like to wrap hives for winter in units of four so what I'm planning to do is winter 8 hives in the space that 4 would normally occupy. My plan is to place a piece of wax paper and a queen excluder between the singles so they occupy the space a double deep would. The wax paper to separate them until they chew through it and co-mingle odors, and the queen excluder to separate the 2 queens. It's cold so the bees are clustered well so there shouldn't be any horrific fights. Anybody ever tried this? I know a few folks who have run 2-queen hives this way but use a cell to start the hive above the excluder. Have no idea if it will work but thought it would be fun to try and maybe a new way to re-queen (late season) and run double queen hives in summer. This is a fun game or I wouldn't keep bees

Perry · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2016, 08:21:23 pm »

Why not just use one of these?

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2016, 09:40:39 pm »

I thought of that Perry but was hoping the combination would yield a harmonious unit that I could run as a 2-gueen unit next year. I'd like to start re-queening with cells and that would be a step in that direction. Cell in top, winter, runn through the next honey season, remove excluder and let thet queens work it out, add excluder and cell in top queenless box, etc. The system I favor is one with a queen in box 1 and a different one in box 2; that way I'd only have to add honey supers on the top on both boxes like a normal single queen double. I know a few folks who run 2 queen hives with just the excluder and it makes it easier because honey supers don't have to be added below the screen. If my way doesn't work for wintering, I'll likely follow your suggestion for wintering singles in the future. You could even go 3 or more high that way. A great idea for a contingency plan

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2016, 07:10:39 am »

I don't see why that would not work. I have put a queen excluder over a pair of side by side hive and had the bees fill a stack of single supers over those hives without any trouble. The wax paper should give them something to do removing it and give them time to acclimate? Sounds like a plan i would have some confidence in, but these are bees were talking about.

Les · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2016, 08:53:59 am »

So could this be done if you have weak hives going into winter but you have two queens?

Perry · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2016, 11:04:16 am »

Hey Les. Putting a weak hive on top of a strong one to over-winter is not uncommon, the idea being allowing the warmth from the strong colony to radiate up to help the weaker one.

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2016, 06:27:45 pm »

Like having a heater in the basement

Lburou · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2016, 09:09:35 pm »

Chip, what would you think of an excluder over the bottom nest, then a shallow or medium super, then another excluder and the second queen above that? Paper or not, the queens would be more isolated...maybe less vulnerable too?

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2016, 10:11:13 pm »

Lee, I think my only concern (for me in North Dakota) is that the extra space the super would create may compromise efficient heat transfer from the bottom to the top hive. I like the way you're thinking about this and may have to try it if butting the hives together doesn't work. I'm guessing that there will be little squabbling given our temperatures right now, especially since the bees are tightly clustered. The warm day in the 15-day forecast is tomorrow (high of 31) so I'll stick them together tomorrow afternoon and see how they do. We're forecast to see subzero temps (F) next week so I'm hoping the need to cluster trumps the desire to fight till they get used to the odor of the combined hives. Keep your fingers crossed $:-\$ \

Lburou · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2016, 01:54:38 pm »

Tactfully said Chip.

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2016, 07:55:41 pm »

Got it done today and took pictures of the process to also show how I use moisture boards for wintering hives here in North Dakota. Forecast hasn't improved so the subzero temps are still on the program. I'll try to post pics later tonight or tomorrow. Old guy is tired. I need to get about 400 deeps nailed together before we leave for California. A friend built a great jig for the job and it's helping lots.

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2016, 01:04:45 pm »

Got it done yesterday and thought I'd share a few pictures of the process and how I wrap for winter. It was 31 F yesterday so I wrapped inside my barn but the big door was open.

First step is to push the hives together so each hive shares 2 walls with their neighbors to share heat and reduce surface area for heat loss. Two doubles to the right and first single with wax paper and Q excluder:

Second single:

Buffalo board. I use 2 small nails and just enough to hold them in place so the board actually has a small gap all the way around for vapor loss. You can see the hole I cut in the buffalo board as the main vent for carbon dioxide and water vapor. Note, the 2 singles are a tad taller due to the excluder:

Starting the wrap. I staple it to the boxes to hold it in place and cut a small flap that matches the opening for the main vent in the buffalo board. I staple there to make sure it stays open:

Folding the wrap:

Done. Note that the lids are just used to hold the insulation in place and a cord is used to keep the lids in place. My lids telescope front-to-back so I couldn't leave them on and butt the hives together:

Lburou · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2016, 07:00:52 pm »

Looking good, I hope they make it. Please let us know how the excluders worked for these hives.

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2016, 07:13:40 pm »

Thanks Lee. Time will tell. Keeping bees is fun for me, mostly for all the new mistakes I need to make to advance my education

Knucs · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2016, 12:44:35 am »

Lol, that's a good definition for education Chip. Going by that, I think I'm headed towards a BS degree (gee is that short for bees?), next year will be a masters, then hopefully a PhD! (maybe standing for Phinally got this Down!)

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2016, 10:10:53 am »

Good one Knucs

Lburou · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2016, 11:07:01 am »

Quote from: Chip Euliss on December 04, 2016, 07:13:40 pm

Thanks Lee. Time will tell. Keeping bees is fun for me, mostly for all the new mistakes I need to make to advance my education

You are expanding the envelope. In early aviation research, graphs of data frequently had a line that made the overall graph look like the back of an envelope. The curved line would represent a safe limit. When one exceeds what is known, aviators labeled it "Expanding the envelope". That is how I remember the story anyway. Pushing the envelope is how we learn...Go for it!

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2017, 08:14:43 pm »

next year will be a masters, then hopefully a PhD

The masters comes easy, its the Phinally got this down, or PHD that seems so elusive. Every time I get close and think I have it nailed... I look up and its gone like a phart in the wind.....

Chip Euliss · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2017, 09:02:24 pm »

Quote from: LazyBkpr on January 29, 2017, 08:14:43 pm

next year will be a masters, then hopefully a PhD

The masters comes easy, its the Phinally got this down, or PHD that seems so elusive. Every time I get close and think I have it nailed... I look up and its gone like a phart in the wind.....

Got to watch those education titles and milestones. We all know what BS is right (the b stands for bull), well, an MS is the same except the M stands for "More" AND a PhD stands for "piled higher and deeper"

It is fun to learn and we learn from mistakes as well as from others.

LazyBkpr · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2017, 11:15:44 pm »

heheh TRUE! learning from my mistakes has been painful, but the more painful it is, the more I learn!